The Endless River discussion

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Your favourite "Side"?

Side 1 (Things Left Unsaid - It's What We Do - Ebb and Flow)
2
17%
Side 2 (Sum - Skins - Unsung - Anisina)
2
17%
Side 3 (The Lost Art of Conversation - On Noodle Street - Night Light - Allons-y (1) - Autumn '68 - Allons-y (2) - Talkin' Hawkin')
8
67%
Side 4 (Calling - Eyes to Pearls - Surfacing - Louder Than Words)
0
No votes
 
Total votes: 12

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Artisan
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Re: The Endless River discussion

Post by Artisan » Sat Aug 01, 2015 12:42 pm

Agree on Louder Than Words not being a good final track, it's the biggest reason I still haven't bought the album. However I do really like the concept of an ambient instrumental album. I really do like side 2, especially Anisina, and I also like Talkin' Hawkin' for the musical quality, but I haven't yet worked up the desire to listen to the whole piece again because Division Bell was just such a good closer to the career. Hell, the discography was bookended by someone not in the band talking. Plus I love High Hopes. Endless River only had a few standout songs to me. It's kind of like how Let It Be put a damper on how well Abbey Road ended the Beatles' career, but I like Let It Be a lot more than the Endless River.

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Re: The Endless River discussion

Post by Alec Taylor » Sat Aug 01, 2015 12:53 pm

If I were to make one brash controversial statement in regards to The Endless River, it would be this:

There is not a single Pink Floyd album with a greater emphasis on melody.

A lot of people complain that it's just a trip down Noodle Street (heh), but these songs aren't just random soloing over archived chords. I can recall every main melody line from this album, and almost none of them overlap at all in my mind. They're all original, and they're all memorable. To me, anyway. The timbre of the album may be derivative of past works, but the melodies brought to the table are one-of-a-kind, 21st century Pink Floyd.
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Re: The Endless River discussion

Post by Vegetable Layne » Sat Aug 01, 2015 1:12 pm

But how can it be 21st century Floyd, when at least half of it is derived from 1994? I find myself in complete disagreement with this statement, especially since TER is not a proper album, but a post-script tribute to Wright, as it were.
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Re: The Endless River discussion

Post by Alec Taylor » Sat Aug 01, 2015 2:35 pm

I find your disagreement fair, and to be honest The Endless River is just going to be one of those albums that divide the fans. Like, for example, I consider it a fully proper, canon studio album. There are your Anthology albums, which are advertised as such, but this seemed to really have that intent of being a true studio album. Regardless of that, its official status doesn't change the listening experience for me either way.
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Re: The Endless River discussion

Post by Dyolf » Sat Aug 01, 2015 7:12 pm

Of course it's a proper studio album. It is all new music, in the sense that it hadn't been released before, and not all of it was derived from 1993-94, much of it was but not all. "Asinina" pretty much uses a simple piano piece that Dave wrote back then, but so what? The rest of that track is all new, 2014 material. All the drums were rerecorded by Nick last year and only 2 very small snippets from "The Big Spliff" were used. Yes the albums harks back to "A Saucerful of Secrets", "Empty Spaces", "Comfortably Numb", "Shine On", "Welcome to the Machine", "Keep Talking" and "High Hopes" but so what? As a final album that's a pretty good tool to use.
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Re: The Endless River discussion

Post by Alec Taylor » Sat Aug 01, 2015 8:16 pm

Dyolf wrote:Of course it's a proper studio album. It is all new music, in the sense that it hadn't been released before, and not all of it was derived from 1993-94, much of it was but not all. "Asinina" pretty much uses a simple piano piece that Dave wrote back then, but so what? The rest of that track is all new, 2014 material. All the drums were rerecorded by Nick last year and only 2 very small snippets from "The Big Spliff" were used. Yes the albums harks back to "A Saucerful of Secrets", "Empty Spaces", "Comfortably Numb", "Shine On", "Welcome to the Machine", "Keep Talking" and "High Hopes" but so what? As a final album that's a pretty good tool to use.
Seconded. I'm glad I'm not alone, thanks Dyolf. ;)
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Re: The Endless River discussion

Post by Vegetable Layne » Sun Aug 02, 2015 12:32 pm

Its not like I don't count it on the canon, or anything. And I really like some of the pieces, really - particulaarly Allons-y and Calling (which has a great Blade Runner-esque sound about it), but as an album, TER feels... slight. Maybe the remark from others has really stuck with me, but it really does feel like I'm listening to Disc 2 of The Division Bell, a pot-pouri of the band as they "sail away" with High Hopes (:p). Yes, its all-new music, but like everyone mentioned, its largely derivative of their entire Floyd career. Which isn't necessarily bad for a final record, to be fair. But my point is, it feels very much like a supplementary to that earlier record, rather than a Phoenix that arose from its ashes.

The Final Cut, for example, started out as, essentially, the OST of The Wall, then became Disc 3 of it, then it took its own course and shaped itself as The Final Cut, a work apart from the Wall (though the connection is there, of course). I just don't see that with TER, particularly when you have Steven Hawking present in a track, again.
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Re: The Endless River discussion

Post by Alec Taylor » Sun Aug 02, 2015 1:56 pm

All of those are fair points that I cannot easily refute, which is what makes this discussion fun and interesting. ;)

The whole The Division Bell Part Deux thing is an impression I never really get. TDB, to me, is definitely a 90s album, especially on tracks like "Take It Back", and the rest of it sounds original to that album. When I think of how each Pink Floyd album sounds, each one has its own timbre in my mind, and TDB has never given me the 'nostalgic cash-in' vibe that I've seen literally trillions of critics give it. TER purposely recreates the sounds of albums past, but TDB has its own sound, so I've never seen it as a direct copy or successor to it in that sense. I honestly believe that if David and Nick has simply said "hey, we found some old tapes of Rick playing and decided to turn them into new songs in his honor" without even mentioning TDB, not nearly as many people would have made the conclusion. The only song I get TDB vibes from is "Surfacing", because it sounds so much like "Poles Apart".

I'll admit it is derivative of their entire career, but that's what I love about it. It takes the basic elements of Pink Floyd and refines them into one long concept suite. It almost pissed me off, because before the album was announced, I wanted to sort of take the different eras of Pink Floyd and make a long instrumental suite in those styles as a tribute. I never would have guessed that the band themselves would do that. That's why tracks like "It's What We Do" and "Allons-y" work so well for me; it's obvious which songs they sound like, but they still sound fresh and original. To me, "Allons-y" is a stronger piece than "Run Like Hell" because it does so much more in a shorter amount of time (and that's about the point where The Wall gets ridiculous).

But everyone will always see things differently. It's not everyday that someone places The Endless River in their #2 spot like I did (although Frowning did stick it at #3 on his list), but I just can't get enough of it. It grows on me with each listen, and the only reason it isn't #1 is because Wish You Were Here will always inhabit that top spot. It always has.
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Re: The Endless River discussion

Post by Artisan » Sun Aug 02, 2015 4:27 pm

It's not actually part of the album, typically, but if you speed it up and change the power chords to echoey reverby riffs, Nervana sounds very much like the music I write.

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Re: The Endless River discussion

Post by Straw » Mon Aug 03, 2015 6:43 am

What SunShade said about it growing on people, I actually didn't really like it at first. I thought it had some really worthwhile tracks, like Anisina, but then a few days later I found myself humming some of the songs to myself then thinking, "what's that song again? Oh yeah that's right, its off The Endless River" and was then forced subconsciously to go and listen to it.

Come to think of it, this is how most music grows of me today.

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Re: The Endless River discussion

Post by Dyolf » Mon Aug 03, 2015 8:32 am

SunShade wrote:"Allons-y" is a stronger piece than "Run Like Hell" because it does so much more in a shorter amount of time (and that's about the point where The Wall gets ridiculous).
I've never thought of "Allons-y" as being derivative of "Run Like Hell" because David seems to like that sound, he used it on "Blue Light" as well "Another Brick in the Wall (Part 1)", so I saw "Allons-y" as another go at that. I really like the "Allons-y" video from the TER Blu-ray/DVD - there's a section of it which sounds really cool but wasn't used for the TER album, sadly.
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Re: The Endless River discussion

Post by Straw » Tue Aug 04, 2015 11:43 am

Splitting Allons-y into two and making it surround Autumn 68 was one of the best production decisions surrounding the album. That along with the entire first side and Skins.

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Re: The Endless River discussion

Post by Alec Taylor » Tue Aug 04, 2015 11:48 am

Straw wrote:Splitting Allons-y into two and making it surround Autumn 68 was one of the best production decisions surrounding the album. That along with the entire first side and Skins.
I very much agree with that. It gets the action going, suddenly breaks into the gorgeous ethereal beauty, then fades slowly back in before a crashing reprise. Very "Atom Heart Mother" now that I think about it. Overall, "Allons-y" is like three minutes long, and probably would have been a bit too repetitive to not be split up. That, and I don't think "Autumn '68" would fit well after (the pain-inducingly awful) "Night Light" or right before "Talkin' Hawkin'".
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Re: The Endless River discussion

Post by Vegetable Layne » Tue Aug 04, 2015 12:19 pm

I also agree. I like to view both parts of Allons-y and Autumn '68 as one long piece, ala Shine on.. and AHM. Its the part of the album that I listen to the most of all from TER.
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Re: The Endless River discussion

Post by Artisan » Tue Aug 04, 2015 3:38 pm

Why do you hate Night Light so much? It sounds like every other track on the album, just shorter :P

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Re: The Endless River discussion

Post by Dyolf » Wed Aug 05, 2015 11:00 am

As far as I can tell, "Night Light" is just an ambient piece that serves as an intro to "Allons-y (1)". It's not the worst, it's not the best. ;)
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Re: The Endless River discussion

Post by Straw » Wed Aug 05, 2015 11:02 am

What Dyolf said. I actually think that the run from Night Light through to Allons-y 2 is pretty amazingly awesome.

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Re: The Endless River discussion

Post by Dyolf » Wed Aug 05, 2015 11:05 am

Having said that, each "side" is supposed to be one long piece in itself, so I suppose you should listen to "The Lost Art of Conversation" through to "Talkin' Hawkin'" instead of just the "Allons-y (1) - Autumn '68 - Allons-y (2)" run.
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Re: The Endless River discussion

Post by Straw » Wed Aug 05, 2015 11:11 am

I don't really like Talkin' Hawkin' though. I think its a bit of a sellout and a bit unnecessary considering 'Keep Talking'. Noodle Street is also just useless. The Lost art is kind of nice though

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Re: The Endless River discussion

Post by Dyolf » Wed Aug 05, 2015 11:21 am

I like "Talkin' Hawkin'", I love David's very bluesy playing. I am a bit disappointed that he didn't use a talk box again though.
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Re: The Endless River discussion

Post by Artisan » Wed Aug 05, 2015 1:49 pm

Talkin Hawkin and Anisina were the only ones that I remember having a really interesting melody. The rest as I recall was trademark Gilmour noodling in a dog's range of hearing. I don't really mind ambience but this album took it much too far for my liking. I should listen to it again, I do recall enjoying quite a few tracks. Hmmm... I'll report back soon...

I'm listening to it again. I was looking it up on Wikipedia and the introduction has like five paragraphs gushing about the album. Then it ends with this:
The Endless River became the most pre-ordered album of all time on Amazon UK, and debuted at number one in several countries. The vinyl edition was the fastest-selling UK vinyl release of 2014 and the fastest-selling since 1997. The album received mixed reviews.
Find that kind of an underwhelming conclusion :P

Also I never thought of it before - Anisina sounds a lot like Once Upon A Time In The West.'

Well, it's a lot better than I remember it being. I think I'm going to buy it now. I still think Division Bell was a better final album, but I like a lot of the songs on here. I can't decide between side 2 or 3 as my favorite. I already voted for 2 back in February or whenever I first heard it. Now I think I'll change to 3. Both are really, really good though.

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Re: The Endless River discussion

Post by Alec Taylor » Fri Aug 07, 2015 1:00 am

I've seen a lot of people dislike the Stephen Hawking quotations being used in "Talkin' Hawkin'", so would there be an interest in having someone (totally not volunteering ;) ) make an edit of the track that removes as much of the talkin' as possible? Would that make it less gimmicky and enjoyable for some people?
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Re: The Endless River discussion

Post by Artisan » Sat Aug 08, 2015 1:51 pm

Well, it took longer than I should have, but I really enjoy this album now. I love The Lost Art Of Conversation, especially the last few seconds with that classic Rick chord. Side three is my favorite, but really they're all good. I have to say the intro to Louder Than Words is a bit too close to Hey You for comfort, but once the vocals kick in, I can... no, once the chorus kicks in, because the first verse is pretty bad. I like a lot of these song titles, too. Eyes To Pearls, Things Left Unsaid, Sum, Surfacing. I don't know where I'd put it in my overall rankings yet, but I've listened to it about five or six times in two days.

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Re: The Endless River discussion

Post by Dyolf » Sat Aug 08, 2015 5:13 pm

Artisan wrote:Well, it took longer than I should have, but I really enjoy this album now. I love The Lost Art Of Conversation, especially the last few seconds with that classic Rick chord. Side three is my favorite, but really they're all good. I have to say the intro to Louder Than Words is a bit too close to Hey You for comfort, but once the vocals kick in, I can... no, once the chorus kicks in, because the first verse is pretty bad. I like a lot of these song titles, too. Eyes To Pearls, Things Left Unsaid, Sum, Surfacing. I don't know where I'd put it in my overall rankings yet, but I've listened to it about five or six times in two days.
1. Allons-y
2. Sum
3. Anisina
4. It's What We Do
5. Surfacing
6. Talkin' Hawkin'
7. Autumn '68
8. Louder Than Words
9. Calling
10. Everything else
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Re: The Endless River discussion

Post by Alec Taylor » Sat Aug 08, 2015 6:34 pm

Oooh, haven't thought to do a ranking of the individual tracks.

Autumn '68
It's What We Do
Allons-y
Talkin' Hawkin'
The Lost Art of Conversation
Surfacing
On Noodle Street
Skins
Anisina
Calling
Sum
Unsung
Ebb and Flow
Louder Than Words
Eyes to Pearls
Things Left Unsaid
Night Light
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